Oisín McGann — A very appropriate thought at...

A very appropriate thought at the march in Dublin today calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. A quote from Everything Everywhere All at Once. A different version of the character in the film also said that kindness was not a sign of weakness, that it was ‘strategic and necessary’.

I couldn’t agree more.

It's quite easy to sit over there in the west somewhere and say "you guys should just get along", let's see you march for peace after 1400 people are killed and 250 more kidnapped by a literal death cult. Hamas must be removed from this world.

Oisín McGann

The IDF can’t destroy Hamas if they keep doing recruitment drives for them. You’re right, I don’t live over there. But I grew up in Ireland in the 70s and 80s, in a town full of IRA supporters. If Britain had done what Israel is doing now, they’d just have created a bigger appetite for violence.

Polly

Well over 10,000 dead, thousands of children, and you think most of them are Hamas? Really? You think you can fire missiles at buildings, drop bombs from fighter jets and choose who to kill? Have you thought this through? A city is in ruins. How much ‘military infrastructure’ do you think there is?

Polly

Hamas sets up shop inside civilian buildings and infrastructure, that is their modus operandi. This isn’t new information. This means we can either fire back at the people firing at us, risking civilians, or do nothing. Doing nothing is what we’ve mostly done until now, and that has failed.

Oisín McGann

The last 18 years since the Gaza disengagement have taught us that “just leave them alone” doesn’t work either. I don’t think this option is _good_, it’s just the only that remains.

“If Britain had done” What do you think seeing 1400 die in a massacre does to Israelis, exactly? We’re human too.

Oisín McGann

I don’t think your average Israeli is any better or worse than any other person, but this is not a new situation. Many other countries have dealt with terrorism before. I expect the IDF not to kill civilians, not to kill children or bomb hospitals. That’s not ‘self-defence’. That’s mass murder.

Polly

You can’t keep pretending this started in October. If Israel really wants to get rid of Hamas, it has to deal with the situation that created Hamas. Again, this kind of thing has happened all over the world, including here. And not killing civilians is not ‘a lovely sentiment’. It’s basic humanity.

Polly

I’m sorry that you think the suggestion that Israel should not slaughter civilians is a ‘kumbaya’ moment. Maybe if you expected the same standards of behaviour from Israelis that you expect from Palestinians, you’d feel differently, but fine, let’s leave it there.

Polly

We’re just amazed you can recognize an act of war by one side and be perplexed by the other side returning fire in that war.
But it’s not actually surprising, it’s standard that no matter what we do and what is done to us, we are somehow always at fault to people like you.

Peadar Ó Guilín

Every death is a tragedy.

No death makes the murder or torture of others "justified".

Maintaining an open air prison for people who's crime was being born inside it wasn't ok before some of them committed a terrorist act. It's still not ok when they are trapped and bombed and starved even worse.

Polly

There is an idea called "the doctrine of proportional response" in international politics and Israel chooses how people see them when they step outside that and respond to tragic evil attacks and kidnappings by murdering children in the thousands, starving populations and shooting into hospitals.

James Brophy

I certainly have wondered. The IDF don’t know. Do you? How many of the Hamas victims were combatants? How do the giant bombs dropped on Gaza tell the difference? Is there an acceptable number civilian kills? What’s a good proportion of dead children? Do some civilian lives matter more than others?

Rev. Magdalen

Hamas and its media allies have for years relabeled atrocities committed by its ally Bashar al-Assad as having been done by Israel.

This article is from 2012:

www.tabletmag.com/sections/new...

Hamas Recycles Pictures of Syrian Dead and Claims Them as Palestinian Dead

We’ll have more on the PR war being waged on both Twitter and Facebook later, but for now, a disturbing update about Hamas, which is using pictures of children that have been injured or killed in Sy...

www.tabletmag.com

PhoenixWomanMN

We grew up in a nation that was still recovering from the mindset that won us our freedom as a nation. We did not want more war, more dead children or more dead soldiers.

We grew up having to be very carefull not to endorse broad emotional responses to tragedies. The experience of a former colony.

James Brophy

The goal of building a prision around people is to make them into criminals. It's to drive them to do terrible things to justify wiping them out.

Or am I missing something? I honestly don't have a solution beyond empathy. I just want the harm allready done not to be compounded by more harm.

James Brophy

You are definitely missing something - after years of occupation we left Gaza hoping they’d thrive and leave us alone. Instead they elected Hamas and began terrorizing. The blockade was a reaction to Hamas’ terror, not the other way around.

James Brophy

"The first one that counts" is a narative issue I keep seeing in this discussion. Travel was allready restricted, there was a calculation made on food and fishing alowed. It's an intresting definition of "left alone"
It dosent justify terrorism but it's odd to imply that these acts came from nowhere

Polly

Proportional response is for respectable nations waging open war on each other, it’s irrelevant in asymmetric warfare in which one side actively uses civilian shields. Every death since 07.10 is on Hamas’ hands, both in terms of international law and basic morality.

James Brophy

Hi, I'm Irish. It's actually not, international law covers not punishing populations collectively.

For 25 years we have had peace in ireland through a process that was long and complicated and made no one happy initally. Everyone had to choose to prioritize the current living over the recent dead.

Polly

The gaza blockade started because Hamas, a known terrorist organization, was elected as the government. Hardly "someone else's actions".
It is you who removes the context. Saying "every death is a tragedy" is a lovely kumbaya mentality, but this is literal war, and that matters.

James Brophy

Representative democracy is literally actions taken on your behalf by others.

It's why I agree with folk who condemn actions, ideologies or government, not peoples.

I just want more folk to advocate for peace. Which I grant you is the hardest thing to do right now, but it's still for the best.

Polly

No, the video of a Hamas terrorist shooting from the door of a hospital, and the quickly running back inside the hospital, still armed. Or the “medic” passing weapons. I’ll never not be surprised by how tankies see terrorists raping, torturing, killing and then go “These guys are trustworthy.”

Lamhfada

First of all the “thousands” figure comes from the guys who raped, tortured, mutilated, burned, and then bragged about it, so it’s probably prime quality bs. As for the rest, see my other post: civies were warned and told to evacuate. If Hamas prevented them from doing so, blame Hamas.

Shotgunbadger

"Civies" (what a weird minimising turn of phrasing to reference other human beings) being warned they'll be killed if they don't leave is part of the war crimes here.

The death figures are consistent with what MSF, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch are saying.

We've got a war crimes denier here.

Surivoron

As for the rest, no, absolutely not. But what you insist are war crimes as far as we’ve seen are not actually war crimes (as regrettable as it is for the victims). Taking civilians hostage, on the other hand, IS a war crime. See how your (willful?) ignorance clouts your judgement?

Lamhfada

Very different context. If the IRA had sent 1000+ men on a rape and murder rampage in London killing 10,000 (prorated) in a single day, and then kept firing across the channel, leaving Britain no choice but to stop them, they would have (and would be perfectly justified in doing so, I might add).

Billy Gannon

The blood thirst you have against civilians is evident.

Not only can you not condemn the war crimes of Israel against Palestinian civilians, nearly half of whom are children, you're chomping at the bit here at an imagined war crime against Irish civilians here.

We see what kind of person you are.

Surivoron

“The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease UNLESS THEY ARE USED TO COMMIT, OUTSIDE THEIR HUMANITARIAN DUTIES, ACTS HARMFUL TO THE ENEMY”.

It’s Hamas who’s commiting the war crime mate. The moment they did, it became a legitimate target.

Lamhfada

Radical islamist terrorists and womenhater (most victims has been women) like Hamas is sacrosanct. There victims (not only in Israel, but Iran and Dafur) are not worth a word. One can criticize both sides. You can’t. You are no man of peace and justice.

Lamhfada

Yeah, that would also have been a war crime. Also, the Channel is the stretch of water which separates Britain from France. I'm unsure why you imagine the IRA firing on Britain from France, but, why let geography, morality or the Geneva Convention get in the way of imagining righteous bloodshed...

Surivoron

It might surprise you but I’m not in charge, and I don’t know what (if any) plan they have. Israel left Gaza 18 years ago and Hamas took over which ended in disaster, so I don’t think they’ll be too keen on letting go of the territory now. And none of the arab states have offered to take them in.

Billy Gannon

False. That’s a lie. Israeli militants started attacking Palestinians in 1947. Arab armies entered as a response in 1948. At which point already several massacres and expulsions happened.

youtu.be/MQ1TAOibLss

Israeli War Criminals Laughing - Tantura (2022 Documentary)

Yosef Diamant and Amitzur Cohen. Amitzur was originally a member of the Lehi terrorist group whose members went on to form the IDF 🇮🇱Two terrorists who fin...

youtu.be

CaptainChihuahua

Yes, but it's entirely Hamas's fault. It's similar to pointing a finger at allies for killing 40,000 civilians in just one night of bombing Nuremberg during World War II or dropping a nuclear on Japan. It's mind-blowing to me that Hamas has been ruling for 20 years and that most Gazans support it.

Walter

No. I always say the same thing. Hamas is a terrorist organization, supported by Palestinian people (unfortunately), who are solely responsible for killing Palestinian children. They can stop bombing by releasing 240 kidnapped civilians asap. Wars are terrible. But it's always on those who started.

Walter

Well, then Israel started it by allowing settlers to invade Gaza, sealing or contaminating water supplies for Palestinians, burning/destroying Palestinian crops and olive trees, and not allowing people access to medical care. Bibi has stated he wants to kill all Palestinians

CaptainChihuahua

You ignore apartheid, if you even admit that Palestinians were in open air prison being bombed on regular basis and getting killed daily by settlers, couldn't even collect rainwater for vegetables if they had some because olive trees are cut down and homes sprayed with sewage

CaptainChihuahua

My father was big supporter of Israel after war with Egypt being there before I was born, but even he opened his eyes and released that victims of Holocaust because criticism of apartheid are called fake Jews and it's getting worse, this isn't protecting Jewish people, quite opposite

Walter

I was a big supporter of Palestinians for a significant part of my life. However, after learning about the history of the conflict, I now despise all Arab regimes that have supported the conflict in the past 75 years. And, I am disgusted by the far-right trash, Netanyahu, whose interests are similar

Walter

Israel has never needed any provocation to slaughter Gazans.

CaptainChihuahua

I've seen hatred and mass graves can't be hidden, but that's the point of ethnic cleansing, let monsters do killing and maybe even get rid of them before peace agreement is signed or send few to the Hague when situation on the ground is accepet and new lines appear on maps, this is far worse

Walter

Oh and don’t forget the 500,000 children Clinton killed in the 1990s

If you forgot we haven’t forgotten and haven’t forgiven either. Each and every one of them deserves to be avenged.

youtu.be/KP1OAD9jSaI

Madeleine Albright justifies the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children as "worth it"

Visit: http://www.policestateusa.com/U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright justified the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children. These deaths were the result...

youtu.be

CaptainChihuahua