spacex vs boeing crew capsule controls lmao
hard to be “team boeing” these days but jesus christ at least they wont be playing fruit ninja up there
Notorious RBMK — spacex vs boeing crew capsule...
The Dragon crew interface makes me feel insane
It's written in JavaScript and runs on Chromium. Why. WHY
A crew is going to die because some unexpected DNS lookup fails eventually
I see our current elevation is NaN.
“Available oxygen level: [object Object]”
You know you’ve been around this stuff too long when you uncontrollably snort laugh *and* shudder simultaneously at this…
I love Javascript & Typescript. I think they're wonderful languages, which are robust, have a mature ecosystem, and can absolutely provide performance under pressure.
BUT GODDAMN, I WOULDN'T TRUST MY *LIFE* WITH IT!
wait until you learn what's running on JWST
Unless the JWST is manned, I'm not worried.
I'm doing the same
checking the fuel level and just seeing this:
...I get flashbacks to the Watman lecture
x = 3
y = 3
x + y = 33
Oh I'm sorry did you have something else in mind?
Crew is going to die because the POS runs out of memory and freezes. Chromium FFS...
Yeah but they’ll get to play the cool dinosaur game while they do.
or someone confused the == and === operators
you are joking. please?
I am 100% serious
yeah ive got irreparable brain problem from this info now
oh fuck no. I don't even know how to begin doing a flight safety analysis of this shit and make it come out "pass". the fault tree itself orbits the 8th circle of hell
That’s pretty far into hell
It's Boeng that has been having trouble with NASA's safety review. NASA akready exgensively uses chromium + javascript at the ISS.
JavaScript counts as Fraud? 🤔
I'm sure you'll figure out what I meant
this legitimately just made me shiver. holy fuck.
Can you please translate?
bluesky app bugs but in your spacecraft control console
😳😳😳
This is an amazing translation. Bravo.
This is on the level of "Reply: Hey OP? What the fuck does this mean?
OP: Decay exists as an extant form of life
Reply: That's a terrifying answer, have a nice day"
level of response
(well done!)
JavaScript was originally just one of the languages used to write websites in and it's never been great at that, so they made it a little better and started using it on servers and it's never been great at that and now we use it for mobile apps and all sorts of shit that it's not great at.
javascript - not great at many things
"george is javascripting the backyard"
"he does what?"
"everything, but nothing good"
I may have to steal "George is javascripting the backyard" for my LinkedIn...
it's not stolen if it's gifted
from me to the world
Corporate productivity apps. It’s the core of internal systems now. I hate that for it. 64gb on a workstation should not feel this anemic.
The web was so much snappier back when Firefox was still called Phoenix
Hey, Firefox is still the best browser for looking at Gamefaqs. It’s still got it.
Me talking with other web developers about JavaScript for web development: Oh come on, this isn't 2018 and node 6, it's not that bad, especially if you use Bun as your runtime.
Me talking about JavaScript in any other context: Oh fuck no. Absolutely not.
our brains will run on javascript owned by facebook
“Should you learn JavaScript? Nope! Is there any other option? Nope!”
youtu.be/Uo3cL4nrGOk?...
Interview with Senior JS Developer
👔 Merch drop 2023: https://posix.storeJavascript programming languageInterview with a Javascript developer with Jack Borrough - aired on © The Javascript.Fi...
youtu.be😭😭😭
Ok, at least no JavaScript in the F35, at this point nothing would shock me.
social.screamingatmyscreen.com/@chanakya/11...
Kartik (@chanakya@social.screamingatmyscreen.com)
Attached: 1 image
https://www.threads.net/@javascript.shitposting/post/C6vDNFGNVAT/
#javascript #node
I'm betting that "other" is JOVIAL.
Q&D version: Hardware like aircraft & spacecraft computers generally don't run the usual OS or even languages because the kind of oopsies we're accustomed to on our PCs would result in people dying. They run realtime OSes with strict guarantees. Unless your company is run by Phony Stark
Not why. A translation.
bsky.app/profile/hail...
The software is unreliable at every level. Reliable software exists. The unreliable software was a choice, made in ignorance or incompetence.
I remember playing an in browser “ISS docking simulator” based on crew dragon controls back in 2020 and let me just say I have a lot of QUESTIONS now
So you were training their AI for the docking functionality? Huh.
Manual docking is only a backup system.
So, the same kind of people that wanna go check out the Titanic in an experimental submersible.
Oh no
reentry burn fails because npm tries to update some shit and crashes
Something something leftpad
oh my fucking god
this is very unpleasant information to have land in the ole brain queue this evening
you just know the flight software is going to be mining crypto after some five levels deep dependency gets taken over
much 1202, so error
might already have a crypto miner installed for when the computer is “idle”, we know elon loves that idea
This is the worst thing I've ever heard
see, it's funny because node is a notoriously fragile and unwieldy stack & their lives are going to depend on it
Jesus fuck, this makes Kerbals look overly cautious!
There are 50000000000 javeacript developers out there. Not nearly as many that can do real embedded work like predecessors. Might also be a cost thing. Js devs can be way cheaper if you look hard enough
And when it comes to space travel, "Cheap" is always the way to go!
There's that line from The Right Stuff about being about to be hurled into space on equipment made by the lowest bidder.
sure but even then the lowest bidder, bid quite a lot
My department got brought in to help with a project where we'd been the lowest bidder - usually that was because everybody else was even more expensive than us,
but the reason in this case turned out to be that the folks who did the bidding didn't really understand the scope of the project.
It's the way to go, but you ain't coming back on cheap
"You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel in a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?" (Steve Buscemi's character in Armageddon.)
You want extremely predictable behavior from anything going into space....
It's a musk company 🤷🏻♂️
holy shit
I can watch them launch from my porch (it rattles our windows). I did NOT want this in my brain
this made me sick to read what the fuck
i'm shaking and crying somebody get this man an RTOS and a lobotomy
This is worse than the Titanic sub running off a generic Bluetooth video game controller from Staples
I promise you that the Logitech controller was the most reasonable thing about that sub.
It’s pretty popular for underwater drone control because it’s bulletproof enough to not get weird shorts from getting submerged in saltwater, etc
The “used carbon fiber shell” angle is so very much worse
Sorry. “Used second-hand carbon fiber for the hull”
Like, they went to the pick and pull for it.
I just don’t want anyone to think “it was carbon fiber” was the fullness of the fuckery.
Yeah, the whole sub thing was "if there is a right way and a wrong way, we'll pick the worst possible way." For every single aspect of it.
The carbon fibre aspect was the most baffling one. It's not a spacecraft; with a submarine, you NEED weight to drag that big bubble of air down. And then joining carbon fibre to titanium half shells.... Jesus... 🤦♀️
Oh, they had weights - in the form of a bunch of pipes, with a single point of failure on the release...
Every bit of that submarine was screaming "I am a maverick whose creativity will not be stifled by The Man telling me what I cannot do", without realizing why nobody does things that way...
Regulations.
Are.
Written.
In.
Blood.
Tranches of AAA, AA, A, B, and C rated carbon fiber that our actuarial division assure us when bundled together are guaranteed to have the same risk profile as full AAA+ rated carbon fiber.
That is kind of what happened. They bought it from an aircraft manufacturer because the material had reached its experation date.
oh fuck they bought it from Boeing
Gonna file that one under “roflsob”
Same story here. The flight control software is C++. This is basically just an infotainment system. Critical controls are on the bar under the screens. The flight is 100% automated.
BTW, the flight checklist tablets also are chromium based. Not SpaceX-specific, NASA uses them on the ISS.
TL/DR, NASA isn't run by morons who just go, "meh, looks good enough". The human rating system is an *extremely* long and involved process.
Anything you might need at a moment's notice while pulling Gs should be on a button. Screens are fine for everything else. A million buttons isn't pro-safety.
I'm confused as to why people think that a glorified infotainment system is "running the spacecraft".
javascript stays winning
then again the choices aren't that many. I suspect the other option would've been Qt, where you would've been writing some parts in JS anyway if you went the QML route
then again the choices aren't that many. I suspect the other option would've been Qt, where you would've been writing some parts in JS anyway if they went the QML route
then again the choices aren't that many. I suspect the other option would've been Qt, where it would've involved JavaScript anyway if they had went the QML route
Gtk/glade is used in a fair few embedded systems running Linux, and Unity is used in car infotainment systems, to mention a couple of well-known alternatives.
There are a bunch of different tools and platforms available for embedded systems, without the need for JavaScript.
oh for sure, though i'm not sure if i'd seen much of gtk being used anywhere outside of desktop/mobile usage.
qml seemed a lot more likely, and the js you write with it is no less worse than the c++ you get to do
oh for sure, i'm just noting the one that seemed most likely, that aside, js is no worse than the c++ you write alongside it anyway.
not sure if i'd seen anything using gtk out in the wild though, that seems interesting
i had a friend who was obsessed with gtk + perl but ngl when it comes to embedded i just want to write c because of my stubborn boomer mindset
Current day job thing is a production-line printer with a small (2x3") integrated touch panel with a gtkmm UI.
It's also running a web server with a vue.js UI for configuration/diagnostics/etc, but for a line operator the integrated UI is enough.
ooh!
From what I hear, this kind of dual screen approach is becoming quite popular in production line equipment.
Means you don't have to fork out for an expensive IP rated large screen by the machine in what's often a dusty or humid factory environment, but can do all those things from an office.
love too have my mission critical controls reload because the web page is using too much memory
crashing a massive rocket because the javascript proved that true == false in 3 steps
I’m more qualified than that and I wrote a ballistic missile guidance program to send Jeb into a mountain using my Atari 800
Who's Jeb 😅😅
A Minecraft dev, but I don't think he got launched into a mountain so I'm guessing he didn't personally wrong anyone in this case* and it's a different Jeb.
*Ik nothing about Jeb so maybe he did idk
The only Jeb I can think of is Lil Bro Bush and I never heard of him riding a ballistic missile either 😅
So many Jebs
So little rocket fuel
Goddammit no
Fucking hell. I got an interview at an autonomous cart company for a JavaScript position and my first question was "this isn't for the cars right?"
I fucking like Typescript too, it's a great way to protect yourself against the fact that you're writing JavaScript or NodeJS and who gives a fuck. I'm programming a virtual machine provided as a service by a cloud vendor to put HTML on a website or whatever not a spaceship.
bsky.app/profile/josh...
JavaScript was originally just one of the languages used to write websites in and it's never been great at that, so they made it a little better and started using it on servers and it's never been great at that and now we use it for mobile apps and all sorts of shit that it's not great at.
I'm stuck on the interface between this cute stuff and the onboard systems and sensors, which were likely built to talk to each other in Fortran or similar. If I was flying in this, my personal item would be a slide rule and I would cut one end to be a wrench.
it's fine, QML is used in appliances and automotives, and it's using JS as well 👍
it's like, no worst than the C++ you get to write w/ Qt
What
ARE YOU SAYING THIS SHIT IS AN ELECTRON APP? SERIOUSLY?
I'm a liberal arts major who graduated in the prior millennium and even I understand the gist of how bad that is
wtf
I was sitting there just thinking it's a bad idea for all the controls to be on screen that requires power and not being shattered
His obsession with touchscreens is going to kill people. Should be a law that only people raised on 80-90s anime can design control panels.
Already happened, teslas use touch screen controls for shifting into drive, park and reverse: www.businessinsider.com/angela-chao-...
Angela Chao may have died after accidentally putting her Tesla in reverse, a mistake she made before, WSJ reports
Angela Chao, sister of Elaine Chao, made a mistake while making a three-point turn in her Tesla Model X, The Wall Street Journal reported.
www.businessinsider.comin this case though that's a net positive
can you source this at all
JavaScript Reaches the Final Frontier: Space
The recent SpaceX Dragon launch brings JavaScript to space. Leveraging Chromium and JavaScript, significant portions of the user interface rely on web technologies.
www.infoq.comhmmm this is more worrying than the other stuff. i don't feel like we have a handle on making safety-critical software in the same way we do hardware. or rather we don't know how robust the rest of the stack is.
oh dear god
No! No!!
Yeah but what could ever go wrong with a touch screen interface?
Any Javascript interpreter in a storm.
oh fuck
IT WHAT
Secret photos of the flight controller have been revealed.
/s
WHAT
The thought of this being near a launchpad makes me want to close airspace for the entire hemisphere.
OMG they built a rocket with JavaScript! Things gonna explode because of an undefined variable.
do they want people to die
You could run that shit on an RPi 5 wtf
Well, we don't know that it isn't.
the fuck?
it's only the UI, i'd assume they chose that because it's workable, necessary if you need to get done fast.
the alternative would be Qt, or maybe Slink, even then with Qt you're likely going to be using QML, where you'd be using JS anyway.
Maths
these replies are funny because we've had appliances and vehicles powered by QML for so long, which uses JavaScript
for the next version they will use ChatGPT to write the code
This…does not surprise me. I rented a Tesla once when I was on an overnight trip. The interface is fucking horrible. I would not at all be surprised to learn it was also built with JS and runs on Chromium. It tracks.
Don't know if this is analagous, but on my island is a resort/retiree community w obscenely rich people + plain income levels.
A contractor said that island-wide everybody uses the same subcontractors. There just is no tiered quality of workmanship.
$7 million house or $400 k condo - same people.
Prison jail for 10 millennia, no parole
effin reckless loons
I bet it's a Wordpress plugin too
It’s almost like Elon’s engineering genius amounts to “I don’t give a shit how many people die as long as it looks futuristic, but doesn’t cost me a nickel in actually being futuristic”.
They let astronauts fly in that shit?
Fuck maybe I should go be a programmer. I cacan't be.that bd if tthis passed cert
Oh god. If we let something as terrible as JavaScript escape into space the aliens will find us and murder us, and they’ll be right to do it.
Who's shocked? SpaceX can't keep its own employees safe here on Earth. www.reuters.com/investigates...
saving this info to hurt two of my friends, one of whom works for a contractor with NASA and one of whom is a programmer.
oh no!
jesus fucking christ
So as your cabin temp becomes unbearable and just before you die in a fiery inferno you can hit F12 and debug the race condition which killed you
Elon fired everyone who know how to code in other languages?
WHAT?!
It
WHAT
I get irritated at having to navigate my touch interface while driving a car, can't imagine it while reentering earth's atmosphere. 😬
OH NO
Some Armageddon shit where an astroid is about to hit the Earth but they need someone who can hand write elliptical curves in raw SVG and they don't have time to train an astronaut so me and my ragtag band of frontend devs from 2010 must go into space
Sending javascript into space should land you in jail
Jfc, what if an alien sees it?
Yrs ago I read a study of a hospital getting a new integrated touch screen system for ALL core sensors & functions…for literal OPEN HEART SURGERY.
It was of course nightmarish.
Discrete controls, instant access, indiv devices you can reboot on the fly or whatev if they go wonky, etc are ESSENTIAL
The medical devices they implant are even damn worse - gotta configure them somehow, so why not an RF interface with proprietary vendor software and security through obscurity?
There are almost certainly people walking around who can be assassinated by SDR
I tried to look SDR up, assuming it was maybe an RF communication protocol or something, but even looking with 'medical devices' I just keep getting "Sales Development Representative".
"software defined radio"
As a general rule, they're not actually controlling anything. There's a manual "docking mode", but only as a backup system. And the astronauts interviewed seem quite happy with it.
Gosh, I wonder what it would look like if SpaceX's owner tried to design a pickup truck?
every one of their streams makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. this HMI is unacceptable in a car, let alone a spacecraft
FRUIT NINJA
that touch-screen-only interface is too reminiscent of a certain submarine of recent memory
hey! the sub had tactile controls!
Lol @ the alt-text.
I think we all agree that the CEO of the company should travel with them, like the Titan guy.
He probably would if he could legally get away with it. Bezos had to resign from Amazon before doing his ride. The Dragon capsule has had a bunch of flawless launches. It’s a well proven piece of flight hardware. It’s been more reliable than recent Soyuz
There’s not currently any safer way to space
the shuttle had 28 successful launches before Challenger. that's not how safety is assessed. the attitude of "it worked last time so it will work this time" is a major contributor to the Challenger accident (google "normalisation of deviance").
and the billionaire death sub, too
The desert sun was a known liability from the beginning tho, just wildly irresponsible.
He means the other submarine.
there was more than one horrible submarine?
I was thinking of Angela Chao's Tesla, where touchpad controls proved problematic.
OHHHHHHHH i totally forgot about THAT particular submarine 💀💀
We all live in a billionaire death submarine.
A billionaire death submarine.
A billionaire death submarine.
It also wasn't the failure point of the sub. The controls in that case were fine as far as I remember, those controllers are pretty good.
If a controller goes onto elon's shuttle I guarantee it'd be a Mad Catz
Buttons are just cooler, it's scientific facts.
Buttons are also much easier to hit accurately under challenging conditions.
Like, say, high-G flight.
Yes, among others
or just trying to change the temperature while driving on the freeway (looks at Tesla)
Exactly. My first experience in a Tesla was horrific. Not a single knob or lever, everything was touch control. I will never own one. I hear several brands are moving away from touch control and going back to knobs etc.
oh here's hoping. They were starting all that touch screen bs when I got my last car, so I made a point of buying a gently used one a few yrs old that still had actual buttons etc
Subaru went too far down that track with their Outback a couple years back. Their sales slumped as people looked for the prior year model (or other current year models) instead. They had to bring back some knobs/buttons the following year.
The good news is that the abort is a physical control. Iirc the astronauts involved in developing the interface insisted on it, but otherwise like the touch screens.
I'm hearing that they had to INSIST...? Fuk me
Also far less chance of a button failing to respond, since the simplicity of it leaves fewer possible points of fault.
It's nowhere near that simple. Electromechanical parts (like switches) have a significantly higher failure rate. However, the effects are more localized. How to handle this in a real system is a significant system safety challenge.
Higher fault 6 rate than what?
Than touch screens
Sorry, but do you have data on metal contacting metal failing more often than the screen and all the software behind it?
Couple that with if a screen goes dead, your buttons still work
Imagine dying in space because a flat panel display backlight failed
"so, crew, great that you're going to mars, but the monitors were leased and software-limited. And the lease is up, obviously they can't get them back quite yet, but..."
insert picture of that aluminum tube that collapsed on the way to the titanic wreck vs the one that made it into an abyss and back
not aluminum, carbon fiber
QA rejected carbon fiber
thought it was expired?
That's part of the QA process, I think?
prolly? i was just under the impression that this was stuff they'd sold because it was warehoused for too long to be used in industrial applications
(it's usually still fine, popular for experimental applications, problem with the sub was cheaping out on the window iirc)
The window was underspecced, but I don't think it's clear which bit of the botched design and construction caused the failure.
yeah
iirc carbon fiber deep sea sub hulls are kinda a bad idea in general even before you get into the provenance
Carbon fiber is great... In tension. It does less great under compression. It does even less great when it's not uniformly laminated together.
yee!
as a reusable manned capsule it's no good
Considering how many things were wrong with that design and a with the company culture, this isn't a surprise either.
I thought they just put it through too many pressurization/depressurization cycles also?
yeah
iirc carbon fiber deep sea sub hulls are kinda a bad idea in general even before you get into the provenance
maybe that's why my brain put Al in there, vague mental picture of Al foil crushing :( Had not thought about thst in a while.
why is it all fucking touch screens. do none of the engineers understand that you should never use touch controls for anything critical
but you can't watch netflix over a button
not with that attitude
shit they just upped the price, its out of my budget now
Someone somewhere has figured out to run DOOM on a button.
No, they don’t understand that.
or the ones that did were removed or just decided "fuck it, this will never get to launching with humans on board" when bossman said "TOUCH SCREENS BECAUSE I HAVE THE BRAIN OF A TODDLER! YAY!" in between ketamine doses
They got hired by Elon. I really don’t think they have brains
if I were fresh outta college I'd take that paycheck and just fuck around all day until one of his spasms where he fires half the company.
it's easier to throw a wrench in the works when you're in the works, you know?
I would not. Everyone would know what kinda bullshit you do from the beginning. First job on the resume reads as dumbshit worked for dumbshit. Passsssss
They almost certainly understood that, logged the problem and were overruled by Musk when he saw how much the redundant and spaceworthy panels cost.
They wanted to work for Elon musk. I don’t believe it.
They thought (with good reason) that Gwynne Shotwell ran SpaceX...
Yah. Good people work there. Great engineers too. They are just hampered by a toxic management and a CEO that pushes pet projects over ones that will actually succede in space.
It is abundantly clear when a project has Musk's attention and when engineers are allowed to actually do their job.
I had a friend there who said that two VPs had the unofficial job title of "Distractor of Musk."
They'd try and find something innocuous that they could throw at him that he could "solve" on his visits from Tesla...
Yah there was an article floating around a bit ago that said each company had an entire team devoted exclusively to managhing him to prevent him from ruining projects.
www.reuters.com/technology/s...
www.latimes.com/business/sto...
I could go on. But yeah.
SpaceX employees denounce CEO Musk as "distraction" - letter
A group of SpaceX employees derided flamboyant billionaire Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk as a "distraction and embarrassment" in an internal letter to executives.
www.reuters.comtouch screens turn slow, expensive, hardware problems into fast, cheap, software problems and somewhere along the way we forgot they were slow and expensive because you have to actually *test* things you churn out on a mill
Plus the touch screens come with a load of hardware problems of their own, such as what happens to them if you suffer a power systems failure.
no opportunity for other safety tools either - like if you're drive-by-wire with a pedal you're still using software, but you can build the last bit of throw to activate a hydraulic so in an emergency you have *something*
just can't do that if you're sitting on an error screen
We're in the infancy of spaceflight and we already have case studies of how astronauts Jerry rigging fixes saved the mission, like Apollo 13. I guess we're gonna have to send up webdevs now
Worse - touchscreens in turbulence are virtually impossible
l've flown when it was too rough to flip a switch let alone piddle around with a touchscreen
Absolutely! at least you can anchor your hand and usually make it work. The Etch-a-Sketch-style entry on say a Garmin 430 is bad, but better than a touch screen.
WAY better
we had touch screens as well but not for critical things
The engineers, specifically? Probably. But the guy who decides if they have a job or not doesn't.
Noy to mention there is no clear redundancy in case of failure.
Musk thinks they look cool, so those poor astronauts have to die for his ego.
too much enterprise, not enough nostromo
cassette futurism is good for more than aesthetic reasons
drama aside, there ARE physical buttons for the CRITICAL functions, below the screen.
it feels weird seeing the spacex shuttle intact like this instead of as a burned-up husk in a museum somewhere after it blows up and kills 20 astronauts
They truly did give their lives for the lulz
It's the Boeing capsule that has had two near-disasterous uncrewed test flights and a lot of technical problems. Crew Dragon has already flown one uncrewed test flight, one crewed test flight, eight regular crew launches, three Axiom missions, and Inspiration 4.
Those SpaceX guys have done a great job keeping Elmo away from the important stuff. Let him put all is effort into the big shiny phallic thing while the real rocket scientists get shit done.
do they have a way to control the ship if the screens fail? it feels like they'd lose 90% of the control if that happens
yes. nasa are not idiots. you can see the buttons underneath
That is the one thing to remember about Space X, they do nothing without NASA's say so and approval.
Musk can get some style points to make himself feel like he's in control, but there are backup system.
Like in a Tesla - just use your voice commands.
Of course it can’t understand you over the sounds of the gasses being vented into outer space but that’s fine.
Like FSD it will have control over to the pilot seconds before the fatal crash.
I think the Mars crew cabin should be called Icarus.
Every time I see one of those cockpits, I imagine Elon asking for a self destruct button because he's seen one too many movies.
idk if there's a button in the capsule but there will be a self destruct button on the ground. one of the starship launches was criticised because it didn't self destruct quickly enough. (it only explodes the bottom half of the rocket)
i think it's that t-shaped one in the middle, specifically requested by nasa
Yeah don't piss off the range safety officer
Love to worry that you’ll crash your rocket because you misclick when trying to close a popup add for Cheech & Chong weed gummies at a crucial moment
That alt text 💯💯💯
Both have touchscreens tbh, but you can see that Boeing has made the decision to have most of the controls be behind actual physical control surfaces as opposed to SpaceX putting everything into the touchscreens.
yeah like touch screens are defensible for presenting data and providing the UI to data
but for controls!!!! LOL.NO
imagine if there were radiation in space, that would be bad, hope there's none of that up there
Haven’t we learned this with those Tesla’s that brick and lock people inside their own cars? Like what the actual?
Who flew operational flights when?
actual rocket scientist here. yeah no the touch screens are a real fucking terrible idea for so many reasons.
Part of what's so wild to me is that I guarantee you the majority of the developers who write the software for those screens have strong opinions about which mechanical keyboard switches provide the best tactile feedback.
What's UI design for spacecraft like? I know astronauts are smart but there's till surely effort to make something that complicated easy to use
Okay well I don't work in the industry currently
But it's important when you're gonna be in space where you can't just pull over when things go wrong that you have redundancy and reliability
Like mechanical switches and individual instruments
I don't even want to go into software controls for white balance on a camera so this makes me incredibly uncomfortable
Um.
Are they not making a provision to operate the craft wearing pressure suits? Touchscreens are all well and good, unless something goes wrong.
You’re talking about the guy who told his employees not to wear hivis gear because he dislikes the colors
Have you never watched a launch? They fly Dragon wearing ascent suits. They're testing upgraded suits and full depress procedures for the Polaris Dawn mission because two rich guys want to EVA.
Thanks, no I haven't. My father was a pilot, he said he had to know a few switches he could find upside down with the cockpit full of smoke, that might be the thinking behind the Boeing approach, wish them both well.
I think having proper switches might be better too but the screens have worked so far. Unfortunately Boeing's approach to designing these capsules has been to cut corners everywhere they could, from lack of software testing to flammable tape. I hope the crew test goes well too. The first two didn't.
iPad running Windows XP
Tuvok would have been team spacex
I just want to know what the control surrounded by red does in the boeing
That thing screams Eject to me even though that’d probably be a questionable choice!
has to be something like that, right?
fuuuuuuck flying any aircraft with only touchscreens
"TURN RIGHT TURN RIGHT!!!"
"I'M TRYING, ITS LAGGED AND WON'T RESPOND, I THINK IT'S DOING AN UPDA--" *crash*
"Star Trek touch-panel controls are cool!"
Yes, they are. They're also in the 24th century and no doubt a bit more reliable than iPad technology.
i mean i know the federation is diegetically meant to be a clown show but i've seen enough episodes of star trek which reliably involve the phrase "the controls aren't responding!" to agree
Hence "a bit". 😆
I'd still trust them more than this.
They explode and kill the crew members operating them at least once per episode.
Still a small number of the Federation as a whole.
And as I replied to another comment, I'd still trust them more than what SparseX is doing, here.
I don't know. Team Boeing has to deal with a persistent risk of potentially fatal accidents, but the other team has a much higher rate of actual fatal "accidents"
who's died in a dragon capsule?
Poor framing on my part. I meant to refer to anti-Boeing, not Tesla.
It's like Tesla infected SpaceX with their terrible design decisions.
The reason why car manufacturers, like Tesla, use touch screens instead of physical buttons nowadays is because it's cheaper. Buttons are better.
What’s scares me more than them being touchscreens is there there is no redundant backup at all.
What happens if the screens die due to a power surge or power failure?
Easy! Just tap the highlighted options box, tap the area marked reboot proc...oh
One of those cockpits is built for the crew to actually work and survive in the harshness of space.
The other is built for tourists who are expendable.
Still recall the scene from “The Right Stuff” where the astronauts fought the designing engineers over having a window. Based on real happenings.
These were all pilots who wanted to fly or have control over their ship.
not just pilots but professional test pilots who after watching oodles of their friends die in lockheed and vought corp shenanigans knew that flight engineering without redundancy and contingency is just Rube-Goldberg-style human sacrifice
not just pilots but professional test pilots who after watching oodles of their friends die in lockheed and vought corp shenanigans knew that flight engineering without provisions for redundancy and developed contingency is just expensive, Rube-Goldberg-style human sacrifice
even in the tiny airplanes I fly, a touchscreen is always backed up by physical buttons and knobs. it's necessary just for light turbulence farting around at 3000ft, let alone a fucking space rocket
Yeah. I thought pilots, especially in military fast jets, had already rejected touch screen only as a really bad idea.
yeah, it pretty quickly becomes impossible to accurately interact with them under any kind of unusual G forces. when things are smooth, yes, it's easier to enter a fix name with a touchscreen than by dialing knobs through the alphabet, but it shouldn't be optimized for the low-stress situation
EXACTLY. I fly a tiny Cessna for pilot training and the most critical glass cockpit elements have physical backups.
yeah, as nice as the newer Garmin units are, I think they're a little underequipped on the physical controls side. at least you can dial and swap frequencies with the 650's concentric knob, but I have no idea if it's even possible to mess with the flight plan without touch
l flew Q400s and we got wrecked by turbulence pretty often
I have... heard things about that airplane. I imagine it was the least of your problems
oh l loved it. such a pilot's airplane, instant power and lift. workload was high but it did what you told it to
and l had a HUD
okay that's absolutely cool as shit. I haven't flown anything with a gross weight over 3000lbs, but there's a nasty copypasta that goes around r/flying about the Q400. one day I'll learn not to believe everything I read online
before Horizon went all-EJet I used to ride in them pretty frequently, which was great from an aviation nerd perspective but my fellow travelers didn't seem to love em so much
yeah the 175 is a better ride for sure
a large percentage of the people l flew with came to fly the Q400. a large percentage of the rest hated the thing so much. l'd be like "well l bet your old flight school has g1000s if you need that to shut you up"
I do enjoy the G1000 but I'm very glad it's not the only thing I've flown. I guess folks get into the business for different reasons too, in addition to the divergent backgrounds
l never used a G1000 ever so l wasn't spoiled l guess. the plane l was flying just before the airline was a Cub that had to be hand propped
hand propping sounds scary as shit but I definitely gotta fly a Cub sometime. this whole addiction started when my parents bought my a ride in one when I was 7, after all. I met a kid the other day who did his PPL initial in one, I bet he's so much better with his feet than I am
l trusted my ex to hold the brakes while l swung the prop
okay yeah I gotta look up that school at 1W1 that I hear has a J5. thank you for the nudge (and for the airplane chat in general; not enough of that on the ol' bsky just yet)
if you want flying stories, the prop in that pic is hanging on the back of my house courtesy of my student who jumped on the brakes and nosed it over a few weeks after that pic was taken
oh dear, here's hoping that's not a preview of my future
l flew out of VUO, l highly recommend that plane
we had radar and all but sometimes you gotta go in
No discount Logitech controls? Weak.
Dunking in Elon is easy enough.
But these capsules with zero physical backup controls are being human rated by NASA...trust that as you will.
Or are they.
Would would think that a beta software is being used on public roads and sold at full cost without approval.
what about the physical backup controls you can see in the picture? below the screens
How's that touchscreen supposed to work when you're wearing a SPACESUIT?
Look, how ELSE are we supposed to paywall critical mission functions!?
"Astronauts aboard the Dragon wore special spacesuits with gloves to support touch screen access in incredibly harsh environments."
www.infoq.com/news/2020/06...
Not that it's much better. See Musk's demand for "big touchscreens" in Teslas. Which would overheat.
www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/t...
JavaScript Reaches the Final Frontier: Space
The recent SpaceX Dragon launch brings JavaScript to space. Leveraging Chromium and JavaScript, significant portions of the user interface rely on web technologies.
www.infoq.comi'm admittedly no expert but wouldn't be pushing a stationary unchanging button be easier with no gravity than a slick glassy touch surface
I’m pretty sure it’d be easier to memorize where all the buttons and toggles are to do what you need to do than which emergency capability is hidden under submenu 6 option 3
And then you think you HAVE memorized the submenus, until an unannounced update reorganizes them ...
oceangate titan vibes
This is oceangate in space but the ceo is avoiding space for some reason…
Bwaahaha
I suspect the SpaceX crew is more cargo than pilot.
elon's an idiot but the team working under him to make falcon and crew dragon seem to have made a decent vehicle. nasa wouldn't approve it if the risk was more than 1/270 and it's been back and forth to the iss a bunch of times without issue.
Omfg why would you make a spacecraft with a touch screen that could fail and fuck up multiple controls
There is also the SpaceX spacesuit, and Chris Hadfield has questions.
twitter.com/Cmdr_Hadfiel...
Chris Hadfield on X: "Sleek new commercial spacewalking suit @SpaceX. - what pressure is inside the suit? - how supple is range of motion when pressurized? - where does the umbilical attach? - can you see/access the umbilical to tend it? - how to attach to structure to free up hands for work? - spark… https://t.co/ld7hvWKuIx" / X
Sleek new commercial spacewalking suit @SpaceX. - what pressure is inside the suit? - how supple is range of motion when pressurized? - where does the umbilical attach? - can you see/access the umbilical to tend it? - how to attach to structure to free up hands for work? - spark… https://t.co/ld7hvWKuIx
twitter.comWhenever fanboys talk about screen-only interfaces I feel insane because as someone who took 4 years of engineering classes in high school and dealt directly with computers being implemented in real world cases via 3D printing, computers are a physical point of failure for anything material.
When someone says relying on tech and touch screens is better because it’s more seamless experience for the user and because “the future” or whatever, you already know they have never done even basic mechanical work on their car and wouldn’t be able to navigate their computer OS bios.
I legit saw someone here say they were better because moving parts are points of failure and i feel that shows they know nothing about computers and electronics
I am going to scream
I almost just went full Joker at that.
or steering with a logitech bluetooth controller
Wonder if the Dragon team worked on the CyberTruck UI?
holy lol
And it's written in JavaScript
*I stole that meme. I don't know where it originated so can't credit anyone. However, you can credit me for stealing it when you pass it on.
Thank you for the alt text which is pleasing to both my soul and my fifth grade sense of humor.
Spacex is the Tesla of Rockets, but they at least have directed the force of the explosion properly...
i don't think the rot got to the starliner yet
unless something happens during testing
Yeah. Theres a reason why planes still use individual switches to do literally everything. And it involves not dying.
Unstoppable force Vs immovable object (doors of the boing model falling off in low orbit Vs spacex burning up in atmo because someone swiped in the wrong direction)
.. touch screen controls.
in a space ship
TOUCH SCREEN CONTROLS. NOT TACTCTILE, TOUCH SCREEN.
WHY.
I am reminded of a different billionaire driven vessel lying near the titanic
Good look jury-rig a control if something goes wrong, like a smashed screen (maybe improbable, but dying because something flying around crashed in the screen on a sudden burst do not seems a good idea)
The Alt Text 😅
Touch Screen to fly a rocket what could go wrong
On the right, controls designed for pilots. On the left, controls designed for Elon Musk.
I can't think of a better illustration of "Form over Function".
What’s your point in this though?
It should be noted that the former is entirely automated while the latter can be controlled by the crew. Dragon's controls are just for the crew to monitor stuff. I would not want to fly on Starliner for a while either it's been plagued with issues from hardware to software because Boeing.
Yeah, they'll be too busy checking all the damn bolts and o-rings just to make sure they don't become the next Challenger crew. I'd rather know they were secure enough to have some time to play fruit ninja.
@niedermeyer.io Knows all about Musk and touchscreens.
www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/t...
Tesla’s Screen Saga Shows Why Automotive Grade Matters
Elon Musk bragged that the Model S’s 17 inch screen isn’t automotive grade, but now Tesla and its customers are mired in “replacement hell.”
www.thedrive.comMine will be controlled via NES Power Glove™️
Not for nothing, and I am no fan of the crazy Musk-ovite, but the "stupid 3 screens" have been to space repeatedly, while the analog interface has been delayed repeatedly, and had not, yet, been tested in space, so there is no evidence. And the doors might fall off of the Boeing one. J/s
The Dragon has been working fine. There are backup manual controls on the roof...
Buttons are so important.
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Which is mostly fine with me, as my car isn't meant to keep me alive in space. Makes me very skittish about SpaceX running its crew capsule interface through Chromium though
Well, NASA gave SpaceX and Boeing the go on making a crew vehicle to get astronauts to the ISS. First flight was to be in 2017 for both. SpaceX got there in 2020. Boeing has yet to deliver. And Boeing got something close to $20m more.
The day crew are going to wake up and fucking explode aren't they. It's going to be a scene.
I feel I am about to be in some kind of trouble for playing Fruit Ninja
Takinomichi Yuzuru is the mascot of Mino City. He's a samurai whose head is a yuzu citrus fruit.
Public stuff is fun - maybe the crew is out on a shopping trip and someone gets their buttons hit in just the right way, their desire is on full display, and something has to be done...
Boeing hopes to polish its reputation with Starliner crew capsule launch
Boeing hopes to polish its reputation with Starliner crew capsule launch
Company, which has been plagued by safety issues in its avionics wing, will send two astronauts to the ISS in its new spacecraft
www.theguardian.com
TIL the touch screens in SpaceX's Crew Dragon run Chromium and Javascript. JFC.
JavaScript Reaches the Final Frontier: Space
The recent SpaceX Dragon launch brings JavaScript to space. Leveraging Chromium and JavaScript, significant portions of the user interface rely on web technologies.
www.infoq.com
Why are they radio buttons? They ought to be checkboxes...
(Interface design is important! 😀 )
#NASA #Boeing #Starliner - Crew looks like they are holding some roses The NASA COmmentators think it's probably for family or anyone else they want to honor. Also some looks at the outside and the inside of the Boeing "Astrovan"
low level content, it will "just" be a Necromancer and undead crew. Maybe just undead crew and the Necromancer is to be found somwhere in the vicinity. there are new rules to be tested ^^
*stares blankly ahead, into a space that seems to be beyond the merely physical*
it is written in JavaScript and runs on Chromium
The touchscreens are cheaper than physical controls these days.
They drive me bonkers. I have a 7yo car that hides the stereo, some climate controls, etc behind touch screen menus and it's hard to operate while driving
High end cars seem to be moving back to dials and buttons (at least some)
I was confused why people were hating on spacex using touch control until I realized it's written in JavaScript and runs on chromium.
Not to mention how turbulence makes touch screens virtually impossible to control.
spacex vs boeing crew capsule controls lmao
hard to be “team boeing” these days but jesus christ at least they wont be playing fruit ninja up there
Like yes I fundamentally understand that manual controls are a necessity, but Boeing hasn't updates their damn interface in 60 years except they added a tablet. Dragon has manual controls they are just elsewhere in the cockpit. It's more efficiently laid out.
OP seems to be missing that part.
#NASA #Boeing #Starliner After a hud to Megan Donaldson the crew liaison officer the crew has boarded the Astrovan, Crew will be driving out just almost at local sunset "Golden Hour." Drive out to LC_41 will be about 25 minutes
spacex crew screaming, unable to put out a fire because someone elbowed the environmental controls while stretching
spacex vs boeing crew capsule controls lmao
hard to be “team boeing” these days but jesus christ at least they wont be playing fruit ninja up there
NASA SpaceX Dragon: Watch live as crew returns to Earth after months on International Space Station
https://www.ufofeed.com/56646/nasa-spacex-dragon-watch-live-as-crew-returns-to-earth-after-months-on-international-space-station/
NASA SpaceX Dragon: Watch live as crew returns to Earth after …
NASA SpaceX Dragon: Watch live as crew returns to Earth after months on International Space Station
NASA SpaceX Dragon: Watch live as crew returns to Earth after months on International Space Stationby arealdisneyprincess
www.ufofeed.com
urrrgh....I get sci-fi can be hard to do right...but ffs at least try to make a valid go at it and not just "oooh drama because all the crew are numptys"
Was the space station introduced somewhere else? Why is Fury, a spy, in charge of a space station? Am I supposed to know who all these crew members are? Are they all aliens or just some of them?
This used to be easier and cheaper in decades past, but one would end up bunking and eating with the crew which annoyed the crew so now it's a more official and expensive thing because you get a private cabin and the ships have some amenities now
www.triptherapy.net/blog/how-to-...
How to cross an ocean on a cargo ship
How it works: first of all forget the idea of being able to work or scrounge a passage directly to the port in exchange for some help, it is not possible, or rather, it is no longer possible. To work on a cargo ship you need to be highly qualified and pass a selection process carried out by the transport company through its recruitment channels.
www.triptherapy.net
Boeing sending first astronaut crew to space after years of delay
Boeing sending first astronaut crew to space after years of delay
Boeing is poised to send the first Starliner space capsule with a crew of humans into orbit next week, giving it a long-delayed chance to score a badly needed win as it struggles to compete with Elon Musk's SpaceX.
www.reuters.com